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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a beast ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracing disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:06:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a be great ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracing disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
2
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Posted - 2013.08.30 20:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cassius Invictus wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Hmm, this is unique and fun CCP :),
For PvE those will a be great ships:
1) long range as needed. 2) 2 flights of small drones - sufficient for PvE (no idea why people ***** about that - I already use 2 flights of small drones and 1 flight of salvage drones in my Paladin). 3) I didn't like the web bonus - I could not hit frigs anyway , and everything else was shot down just fine. 4) insane omni tank - the resists are still low but with 135% rep bonus it does not matter. 5) ewar immunity will just make other ships obsolete in lvl 4 missions (hope it works on tracking disruption). 6) they could use small dps bonus (like 10% or 15 %) but will still be good without it.
However for PvP:
1) no buffer 2) no dps advantage 3) immobile 4) asking for tornado alpha strike 5) still can be caped out I imagine and killed by small gang 6) asking for dreadnoughts guns attention 7) can't be remotely repped (no one will fly such an expensive ship without remote reps) 8) no real advantage over anything currently in use 9) can dominate next Alliance Tournament but only in this form of PvP it has its uses.
So PvE you did a great job, PvP those ships are still useless. They are too expensive and too fragile to be used. They are still worse than Pirate BS and u know what? I donGÇÖt see Pirate BS used for PvP (ok was killed once by small gang with Mach, but those guys were running a sick combo :) ). Their main downside (both Pirate and Marauders) is that for their massive price tag they have lower survivability that Command Ships and T3, and often don't have much higher dps (paper dps while its application is much worse that on commands and T3). They can have much HP but they suck with resists. So:
1) redesign marauders (unlikely and I love your changes for PvE) 2) fix Pirate BS (more likely) 3) Introduce new type of BS with T2 resists, T2 damage so its massive price would be justified by its advantages over commands and t3.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.08.31 10:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
The Djego wrote:
Well not entirely true.
1. The extra range is nice on the Paladin, the falloff bonus is kind of pointless on the Kronos(because it is mostly a rail platform) and overall I don't think the bonus is worth the loss in web strength, I would rather like to see that the active tank bonus would removed in favour of a damage application bonus(since it is fairly pointless for L4 and useless for PVE with RR). 2. The lost Sentry option is quite massive nerf for the Kronos, for stuff like Incs you use your full drone bay for sentry's, since you can utilize focus webbing and painting. 3. While it is not really required in Amarr space and on the paladin(because most stuff stays at range) it is fairly important for a sentry/rail Kronos to keep the dps up at closer range and a extreme important bonus for the hulls in Incrusions. 4. You can tank L4 just fine with them now, while fitting 4 damage mods and a T2 damage rig. If you didn't over tank the hulls before, it means nothing. 5. It only really hurts vs Guristas, then again ECM is the worst EW ever. 6. The dps they have with her drones is fine atm, the drone nerf will cost them up to 120dps and will hit the Kronos the hardest(surprisingly the worst marauder dps wise, since it is crippled by missing 2 sentry drones).
Overall if you want to do L4 reasonable quick the changes are bad, you lose dps, you lose the 90% web, you lose a lot of speed with the mwd(because you want to fit a mwd, not a mjd) and take even longer to switch systems, all for a massive active tank, that nobody should need and what prevents you from moving to the next gate while shooting stuff. For PVE with RR like Incursions or WH the changes are even worse, since the active tank stuff does nothing for you and you lose quite a bit dps, speed and one of the best ship bonuses for it.
Even for PVP I would rather prefer a bit more speed, another damage application bonus and a slight buff in the RR ability, to have a good alternative compared to the pirate BS, instead a slow active tanking brick, that screams bait or simple will be shoot last in a gang fight.
Well, dont know much about Kronos so you are probably right, but at few points you are wrong: 1) Guristas are not as bad with ECM, as sansha are with TD. Try flying a sansha mission in any turret ship - u will smash your head into keyboard (despite having a uber-pimped Paladin i fly Tengu for many sansha missions). 2) Not all missions can be tanked even in Marauders - the assault most notably or the blokade if u mess up spawns (which is often in this mission) - while my tengu can tank it quite easily. Also Dread pirate Scarlet mission is hard in Marauders because of the random dmg types in pockets. 3) Since i don't fly sentry drones I don't have an opinion on them, but a flight of medium drones is useless (they spend most of the time flying from target to target and being shot down in the process). 4) Web is a delicate issue, for Paladin it doesn't help much in PvE, i guess for Kronos it's different. It was a great bonus for PvP but since the ship can no longer move and is fairly useless in PvP i also don't see a point in keeping that bonus. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.09.01 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Big rEy wrote:The bastion does not make a marauder strong enough for incursions or level 5, and it does not make it faster in L4. Don't care about PvP. It's a marauder. It's for PvE. I do like the transformation thing, but without a damage buff, it's useless. My character has 4.6 mil SP, most of them in scan & salvaging and I still can do The Assault and Worlds Collide without problems in a 1.2 bil RNI and the bonus room from angel/guristas extravaganza it's a joke for my tank. A golem will be even better at tanking. So it's not a necesity to bring more tank ( I do not complain, I like it, more it's better) for PvE and the pourpres of a marauder, it will be better to give more dps, or even better to give both tank and dps. Now, the bastion it's a bonus in PvP in my noob/new player opinion but how can you fight in a marauder vs 2 bs + decent logi with just 1.400 DPS in a torp golem? If you want to be used in PVP, make the bastion module give some damage buffs. The golem have gained +200mil on jita, from 0.95 to over 1.25 bil since this announce. It's too expensive, more than a pirate BS, so why would not be better than one? And if ccp is working on marauders, make the range bonus of tractor beam better. 60-70km ore more :P Just my opinion as a new and inexperienced player of eve online.
Sry Mate, but you really don't see any advantages in lvl 4 mission running with proposed changes? The ECM immunity alone will make a lot of missions much much faster. Increased range also.
CCP, just and idea: why don't you add a 50% damage bonus to racial SMALL weapons. How would you like to see marauder fitted with mixed weaponry (as a true battleship should)? It would compensate for web and drone loss, allow for alternate use of high slots, and make a unique and fun ship. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.09.02 08:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Big rEy wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote: Sry Mate, but you really don't see any advantages in lvl 4 mission running with proposed changes? The ECM immunity alone will make a lot of missions much much faster. Increased range also.
Yeah...you are right. I am used to fight guristas and their target jamming it's not something bad as long as I have some Auto-Targeting Cruise Missile. Wich I've always had just in case.
Try sansha missions, where a single elite frig or cruiser reduces your range and tracking to 0 :). Permanently... |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.09.03 07:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
CueCue QQ wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:if we ever did, it would be by severely penalizing turret tracking / missile explosion velocity when in Bastion mode, which would severally limit their use in PvE. Can we do this then? Or maybe make the Bastion module scripted so we can have either the tanked version with damage projection, or the DPS version with a loss of tracking, and not giving the tank bonuses?
Give this a guy a donut. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.09.03 09:56:00 -
[8] - Quote
Proposition to fix planned marauders:
1) Remove 7,5 repair amount bonus
2) Reduce bastion repair amount bonus from 100% to 50%.
2) Add 4% resist (amarr, cldari) or 7,5 % hp (gallente, minmatar) bonus
3) Rise base armour/shield resists 10-15%.
Problem solved.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
5
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Posted - 2013.09.04 21:33:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Nam Dnilb wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Note that EM and Thermal are remaining the exact same as current. The Kin helps slightly with Gurista. Exp helps significantly with Angels. But that's all she wrote. Imma shootin' Guristas and Angels with mah Lazors! (said nobody, ever) Exactly.
Yup, don't get it CCP. Thank you for acknowledging my earlier proposition but for godGÇÖs sake what is up with those resists? EM and Thermal lowest for Paladin? Explo and Kin for Vargur? ThatGÇÖs hilarious. Seems Kronos and Golem are fine. I know that stat line is standard for T2 Amarr and Minmatar ships, but if they are still mainly PvE ships match their strongest resists to their racial NPS rat types!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ps. Webs are useless IMHO but if so many people want them, than who am I to argue...
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
7
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Posted - 2013.09.04 21:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
hmskrecik wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Nam Dnilb wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Note that EM and Thermal are remaining the exact same as current. The Kin helps slightly with Gurista. Exp helps significantly with Angels. But that's all she wrote. Imma shootin' Guristas and Angels with mah Lazors! (said nobody, ever) Exactly. Yup, don't get it CCP. Thank you for acknowledging my earlier proposition but for godGÇÖs sake what is up with those resists? EM and Thermal lowest for Paladin? Explo and Kin for Vargur? ThatGÇÖs hilarious. Seems Kronos and Golem are fine. I know that stat line is standard for T2 Amarr and Minmatar ships, but if they are still mainly PvE ships match their strongest resists to their racial NPS rat types!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Frankly, *I* don't get it. It's like people flying Marauders had never seen other T2 ships. Whole T2 lineage has the same (ok, similar) resist characteristics and only on Marauders they are meh??? Geez... Hint: advanced ships tank not against their mission rats, they tank against their faction enemy (Amarr tanks Minmatar and vice versa and so on).
You quote me but you clearly dot read what I say... As a pvp pilot I have ton of ships to fly: Abso, Sacri, Loki, Legion, Tornado, Oracle... I can live without a T2 PvP BS (but it would be nice). I did say that the resist setup on racial T2/T3 ships is standard for PvP ships. Marauders are still PvE ships with improved PvP capability (by adding those t2 resists). But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting?
I HAVE good pvp ships - now I want a good pve ship... If it can do pvp - great - if not - plenty of others to chose from... |
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
9
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Posted - 2013.09.05 07:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:hmskrecik wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote: But how Paladin and (to a lesser extent) Vargur can be good for PvE if their resist don't match the rats they are fighting? Maybe because both Paladin and Vargur are natural omni tankers? Which means that no matter what rats you fight you can easily tank against them. None of filling this explosive hole on Kronos and EM on Golem. Still doesn't change the fact that the Golem and Kronos are in a better position to tank every type of mission rat than the Vargur or Paladin. With high Kin/Therm resists you can ignore half or all of the resists needed for every mission rat in the game since they all deal Kinetic or Thermal as a primary or secondary damage type and 8 out of 14 rat types deal primarily both. The argument is not that these are worse than what's on live, it's that the 30% omni-resists from Bastion were better.
Exactly my point. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
9
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Posted - 2013.09.05 09:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP I love your concepts but here you clearly don't know what role a marauder should have.
1) If you wanted to improve current marauders for PvP than:
Increase sensor strenght, give T2 resists, no bastion module, give more drones, moblility etc.
2) If you want PvE lvl 4 mission kings than:
Your initial proposition was right on spot (almost).
3) What u actually did:
Made a ship with contradicting roles (sniper/brawler, stationary/mobile, pve focused/pvp focused, passive tanked/active tanked), contradicting bonuses (range/web, bastion/mjd) and no advantages in either.
Dear CCP tell us what exact, specialised role u want for this ship and we tell you what we want. Now you have a ship that on paper can do a lot, but in practice is outclassed by ships that are just great at what they were designed to do.
My opinion: For PvP Pirate BS should be DPS kings, Marauders should be Tank kings. PvP Tank kings (resisatance, buffer, remote rep, no bastion). This should be theier role - outsurvive anything else. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
10
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Posted - 2013.09.05 11:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
Whatever CCP will do they should make their mind about it.
Right now it is a tank on wheels, with spining baldes as its main armament. Guys firgure out what this ship is for. Than start applying bonuses, resists, etc.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
10
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Posted - 2013.09.05 12:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
Debora Tsung wrote:Franz7657 wrote:wtf? webber is completly useless on the golem... Well, the kronos and Paladin Pilots wanted their webs. So now it's all of them or none of them.
Hey Man, I am a Paladin pilot and I don't want it. I also don't want capacitor amount bonus (why we have it exactly? didn't CCP at HAC rebalance said that capacitor bonuses are stupid?).
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
13
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Posted - 2013.09.05 13:19:00 -
[15] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:Barrogh Habalu wrote:Xequecal wrote:I'm more worried about the fact that so many people seem to only care about its level four mission performance, and not care about any other forms of PvE. The last round of changes is a vast improvement to its PvE ability in incursions, wormholes, lowsec, and nullsec, and everyone is crying because now it only knocks L4 mission difficulty down to "profoundly autistic" instead of going all the way to "syphilitic ******** monkey" levels of easy. The problem is, I feel that there's no reason to use this ships in wormholes or incursions because of how good ships that compete with them are in such environement. I'm pretty sure that the same can be said about L5s/null anoms/whatever. That's pretty much why we are mostly hearing mission folks when it comes to PvE. Okay, you may be right about stuff like Kronos (that can do decent against serpentis due to how their damage and resistance profiles stack), but other stuff (like Paladin) becomes pretty useless. Edit: Okay, the point above makes sense. Got ninja'd but discussion progression. There are still issues when it comes to effectiveness outside of "gank possibility" scope. if you do not see how being immune to neuts helps running wormhole PvE, you have probably never been to a C3/C4. also, ask a basilisk pilot what he thinks about T1 vs. T2 resistances in incursions.
I don't think EWAR immunity means you are immune to neuts. Sry Mate...
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
14
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Posted - 2013.09.05 20:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ranger 1 wrote:Sarmatiko wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:why the paladin gets the stupid resist pattern for its own limited damage pattern with lasers. Because developers played through precise tests and decided that Paladin works most effectively against Angels (EM/Thermal lasers against Exp/Kin npc, what a great idea). Or they promote even more BD&SM experience in PVE. Or simply they don't have any clue. Of course their resist profile has a direct relationship to their racial enemy, but you knew that. Since a Paladin has more than enough tank to deal with whatever you choose to hunt, you should consider that the extra tank in other area's provides you with a bit of protection in case of a gank (where the attacker usually fits weaponry that does a damage type they assume the ratter won't tanked for). Always a silver lining.
Ah there you are wrong Mate. Amarr racial enemy, the Minmatar, deal ALL damage types. Thats why Amarr should have more of a omni tank (but still with exlpo/kin being the highest).
The problem is that while in PvP I can cover resist holes with modules - I don't care where the hole is - I will be omni tanked anyway (so the resists spread is of lesser consequence in PvP). But for PvE I am forced to cover em/thermal hole (coz Paladin being a lazor ship should fight sansha/blood what escapes some peoples attention here...) while Kronos and Golem can use those slots for damage projection mods. Thus Kronos/Golem are much more effective at PvE because they can focus on dealing dmg (faster mission speed) while in my Paladin I have to cover my resist holes first. That is HUGE disadvantage.
Also remember: with laser I can't chose my dmg types. So I'm forces to either fight rats which hit my resist holes or rats that have high resists against lasers. So its lose/lose scenario. Vargur is less affected coz it can fight all rats (can change dmg types), Golem the same, while Kronos has highest resists for rats that is't weaponry is good against.
Again for PvP I will be omni tanked anyway and will cover any large hole no matter which one is it. Just change Paladin resists profile so its better for PvE, so it can fit damage projection mods in lows instead of tank mods.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
14
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Posted - 2013.09.08 18:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Benny Ohu wrote:Shantetha wrote:This is kinda duh at this point, which is prob why people haven't answered you. yeah. this is why i'm trying to get more people to say "this is bad", because i don't believe anyone could possibly think this bonus is any good. but there's not much talk of it, which makes it seem like a minor issue. i'd like everyone who doesn't like it to say so, to make it very clear how bad this bonus is
Second it. Wrote that myself few times. But surprisingly Paladin seems to hold its own (only in PvE) even with two useless bonuses (cap and web). Still it should be changed to something more useful (hell, even -10% bonus on turrets cap use would work better though I hate that bonus altogether ). |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
16
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Posted - 2013.09.08 21:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
Before you propose any new ideas CCP should think about few things:
1) Do you really want to force players to use certain modules on hulls (mjd, web, active rep)?
2) If u consider marauder rebalancing in relation to Pirate BS do you consider that Pirate BS will also get rebalanced (so for example adding dmg to maruaders can be countered by adding even more dmg to Pirate BS's)?
4) The same as above but with Black Ops?
3) do you want the bastion to be an essential module (like on dreads) or do you want it be just an optional module (the whole effort with hull transformation seems to suggest the latter).
4) do you really think that improving marauders in some ways has to come up at the cost of adding some drawbacks (less hp, less speed, more mass etc.)
5) Do you want marauders to be solo or fleet ships?
6) Can u really justify the whole thing with low sensor strenght?
7) Does the increased effectiveness in PvE has to come at a price of screwing the ship for PvP?
8) Do you have to put marauders in line with other ships (like giving standard T2 resists for their race even though they screw certain ships for PvE) or can make them unique?
9) Have you considered making a bastion do something opposite than it does now:
a) removing rep bonus, adding resists bonus and allowing rr (few marauders making a spider tank in bastion would be probably OP, but still balance that out by prolonging the bastion cycle). This would actually justify their immobile nature.
or
b) instead of making them mini dreads make them mini carriers: bastion would allow rr and it would give a 100% both to active repairer (for PvE) and to RR (for PvP). Than keeping range bonuses and not increasing dps would actually fit well with that role. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
16
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Posted - 2013.09.09 11:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Except that T2 tank and no local-rep bonus on the hull mean that if you don't want to use Bastion you're getting an overall mission-tanking nerf on the Vargur and Paladin but a major buff on the Kronos and Golem due to how damage in missions is distributed. For a small dissertation on this issue see my previous post way back here. Thanks for the read. I would surmise that for missions you are correct, but what about PvP? Note that Caldari ships suck for EM resistance (typically 0-20), but with two T2 EM amplifiers it's easy to get this into the high 60's and low 70's without much effort. I imagine the same would be true for kinetic and thermal on the Vargur and Paladin. Let's also not forget that there are no shield strength implants, so it's quite easy to turn the Paladin into a flying brick with a set of Slave implants. What I wouldn't mind seeing for Marauders is a set of short and long-range skills (instead of the fixed stasis web): GÇó Paladin: Tracking, Damage GÇó Golem: Target Painter, Missile Velocity GÇó Kronos: Tracking, Optimal GÇó Vargur: Stasis Web, Falloff I still think that if Bastion is going to reduce your speed to zero it should also compensate for the immobility by increasing tracking speed and explosion radius, increasing rate of fire by 50% and doubling the load time.
As I wrote earlier and what your statement seems to support is that for PvP it doesnGÇÖt matter where the resist hole is - it will be filled anyway with a proper mod for omnitank.
It does hugely matter in PvE where there is a fixed dmg type of rats and if a PvE boat that is supposed to fight those rats has a hole on their dmg types that this is just bad design. Fix Paladin and Vargur resists. Just swap them thatGÇÖs all that is needed.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
16
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Posted - 2013.09.09 17:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ersahi Kir wrote:Iome Ambraelle wrote:The change to T2 resists only benefit some of the hulls versus their factions rats compared to the active tanking bonuses. The Paladin has received a net loss in tanking potential with the changes. The Amarr T2 profile doesn't enhance EM or Thermal resistances which is what the primary targets of a laser boat are shooting. So the Paladin lost 37.5% repair against their primary targets and gained absolutely nothing outside of bastion. The Paladin only sees an increase in tanking potential against those same NPCs over what they are capable of on TQ with bastion active and they must STAND STILL to get it. The other hulls received enough additional resistances against their primary factions to counteract the lost of local repair boost so they get a net positive both without bastion or with bastion active. Designing marauders for PvE is what ruined them in the first place. They need to be balanced for PvP because mission runners are just going to pick the ship that runs missions the quickest anyway.
Which doesn't mean they can't be balanced both for PvE and PvP... |
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill Exiled Ones
18
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Posted - 2013.09.09 19:13:00 -
[21] - Quote
Iome Ambraelle wrote:
You are simply taking my post out of context. If you had kept up with this thread you would know that the intent of my posts is to compare the TQ, version 1, and version 2 proposals and draw conclusions on how they perform in various scenarios based on the differences. I can throw a bunch of faction/deadspace/officer modules into any fit and reach silly numbers with any hull. The point is to see where these hulls fit into the EVE ship ecosystem taking these changes into account.
If the overall tanking potential of these hulls is only slightly better then the pirate hulls, the pirate variants will always be better because they bring greater DPS potential. The devs have already indicated that they do not want to add a direct DPS bonus to the marauder class and have chosen to concentrate on damage projection and situational mobility. I'm simply looking at the numbers provided by practical fits and seeing how they fit within this stated goal and which usage roles benefit from the changes and which roles are adversely affected by them.
Exactly. Better resist profile = less tank modules needed = more dps modules = faster missions. How hard can it be to understand that?
Oh, and call me dumb but for those of you who say you can tank ANY level 4 mission: my Paladin with X-type rep and proper hardeners cannot tank: The Assault, The Dread Pirate Scarlet (when I fail to predict what rats will spawn) and the Blokade (when I mess the spawns) . I sometime feel its easier to tank a class 5 anomaly in WH (no it's not ;) ). Then again my Tengu tanks all lvl 4 pretty well... |
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Posted - 2013.09.09 21:46:00 -
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How about: Marauder hulls: as in current version
Paladin bonuses:
7.5% bonus to large energy turret optimal range 4% to all armor resistances 7.5% bonus to large energy turret tracking 5% bonus to large energy turret damage
Kronos bonuses:
5% bonus to large hybrid weapon damage 10% bonus to large hybrid turret falloff per 7.5% bonus to large hybrid weapon tracking 7.5% bonus to the velocity factor of stasis webifiers
Golem bonuses:
10% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo velocity 5% bonus to cruise missile and torpedo explosion velocity 10% bonus to effectiveness of target painters 4% bonus to all shield resistances
Vargur bonuses:
5% bonus to large projectile turret rate of fire 10% bonus to large projectile turret falloff 7.5% bonus to large projectile turret tracking 7.5% bonus to the range factor of stasis webifiers
Bastion Module:
Ewar immunity, 60s stationary, 25% falloff and optimal, increases shield and armor repair amount by 100%, increases shield and armor remote repair by 50%, can be remotely assisted, can fit only one rr.
Use: Lvl4 missions, Incursions, WH C3-C4, Small gang fleets.
If u think this overpowered consider: low lock time, no bonus to range on rr, is stationary with rr, can fit only one rr. Basically this would work if 2-4 marauder would spider tank but would be unable to replace logistic ships.
IMHO this is the only way this can work for all types of PvE and PvP. If you think it has to much tank consider that carrier costs as much as marauder and can remote rep much more effectively. Leave huge dps for Pirate BS.
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Posted - 2013.09.09 22:45:00 -
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Cade Windstalker wrote: Except that the resist profile is not particularly better on 2 out of the 4, especially compared to the damage they deal (which determines which rats they're likely to want to fight)
Mate pls read what I wrote. A completely agree. I wrote about resists profile not overall resists. Pali and Vargur don't need their resist increased. They need their resists shifted. |
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Posted - 2013.09.10 07:28:00 -
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m3talc0re X wrote:Aglais wrote:
a) "HURr DuRR 10 KILOMETER WEBS ON A 145 KM CRUISE MISSILE SHIP, OR A ~35 KM TORP SHIP"
I f***ing lol'd XD Also, for rep bonus on a pve ship, it's more useful than you think. Having it as a bonus frees up slots you would normally use to bonus that rep. Ie: Aux nano pumps, nanobot accelerators, shield boost amps, etc.. It's pretty damn nice to have.
Behave Sir. This is nowhere near as useful as a 15km web bonus on a +100 km pulse Paladin (not to mention a tachyon one!). Keep up the good work CCP! |
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Posted - 2013.09.10 22:07:00 -
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Ranger 1 wrote:Keep in mind that many players don't understand fitting for gank if your NPC targets are weak to your weapons, and max tank if you are weak to their weapons. It doesn't make sense to them unless their chosen NPC target is both weak to their damage type and also using weapons that deal damage the players ship is strongest versus. Limiting yourself to your own racial space is a somewhat silly concept in EVE. Choose and fit your ship according to what you will be facing. Stop demanding that a ship have ideal resists and the perfect damage type for the local enemy. And in the unlikely event that you can't choose or fit a ship to fit your purposes vs. a particular NPC... choose a different target. Meanwhile, carry on.
Sure. So why Kronos and Golem gets it and Paladin and Vargur don't? And since Kin and Ther are the best (arguably) resists in PvP it adds up. Its not about making perfect ship for racial missions its about equality between marauder hulls. Kronos is just much better at fitting for missions than Paladin, while also being better at pvp (since it gets the most benefits out of web bonus).
Anyway criticizing the current version is redundant as it probably will get scrapped. Now we should supply CCP with fresh, both good and bad ideas for them to consider (Mini doomsday weapon while sieged! Yey!). |
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Posted - 2013.09.11 09:39:00 -
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Onictus wrote:J3ster wrote:Ranger 1 wrote:I would like to suggest one change to how Bastion Mode works that might solve a few issues and open up their use in PVE (Incursion) groups and perhaps prompt a few experiments in fleet doctrines and smaller gang PVP.
Currently Bastion Mode prevents all remote assistance.
I suggest that perhaps it should instead be "Bastion Mode prevents all remote assistance except from other ships in Bastion Mode".
Considering the wealth of utility slots a Marauder has, that opens up some interesting possibilities. That's probably one of the better ideas so far. would make a fleet of 2 or 3 marauders a worthy addition to an incursion fleet For the 200 dudes that still do incisions.
Some day I would like to be the 201st dude just for fun, but now I'm more interested in their WH Anomaly application.
Just noticed CCP want's to further nerf +4% resist bonus. Because it's to strong. Which ships have those bonuses? Amarr and Caldari. Are they that good at PvP?
Also CCP want's to buff local repair. Which ships have those bonuses? Gallente and Minamatar. Are they bad in PvP?
So it's basicaly a nerf to Amarr and Caldari ships which are not that great at PvP and buff to Gallente and Minamatar which are dominant reces in PvP.
In AT 13 it was allready all-Gallente... are CCP staff secretly Gallentians? |
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Posted - 2013.09.11 11:20:00 -
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Lephia DeGrande wrote:The only Thing i really admit is that CCP buff brawling overall, maybe because it brings more Action into our Spreadsheet, i dunno.
But sure that means it pushes the already Good Blaster and Gallente seems pretty OP but, with some letdowns like bad resistance pattern, odd 50/50 Optimal+Falloff, Them/Kin Damage only, very High Signature, kinda low speed and bonuses to activ tanking i think they do have some pretty "Good" disadventages.
I fully agree. I really wish gallentian pilots have thier 7,5 rep bonus replaced with something that buffs both acticve and pssive tanking. However since Gallente relly on thier dps and not tank - contrary to amarr, I fear that one day Gallente will be better at both tanking and dps (the way it seems to be going). |
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Posted - 2013.09.13 11:14:00 -
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Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Love it. If you use a golem and a vargur you can call it "bumping uglies"
Sounds like a title for a po*n movie... |
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Posted - 2013.09.14 20:13:00 -
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Rowells wrote:I'd like to say this, since a lot of people seem to be unable to see it, you are not in any way required to fit any of the bonused modules at all. those bonuses are there to give you options and allow for the ships versatility. If you sniper fit with mjd. dont fit a web, no problem. dont like the idea of using an mjd and a prop mod? dont fit the mjd. You use a noctis instead of the tractor/salvage fittings? don't fit them.
Stop trying to kill these ships versatility. They didn't have it before and it's great now. Just remember,"I don't need this bonus for my playstyle. So, rather than demand the ship cater to me, I just won't use it"
Sry Mate but you are the one that can't see it.
I'm not required to fit web, true. Why there is a web on a slowest subcap ship that is supposed to be mainly stationary is beyond me, but you are right here. Also all you guys who support web for PvP: yep it's great on CURRENT marauders. If u will be forced to stay stationary that bonus won't give you anything anymore.
I am forced to fit mjd because of the speed nerf - AB won't cut anymore... also i can't salvage with AB .
I am also forced to use bastion module since I've lost my hull rep bonus and gained NOTHING. You say I gained T2 resists? Well yep for PvP sure, but for PvE I didn't get a damn thing (thats only true for Paladin and Vargur). |
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Posted - 2013.09.18 06:49:00 -
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Ok just figured. At some point T3 will be nerfed (and they should be) but the problem is that this would leave us WH guys with no ships to run anomalies. Marauders could easily take that role. So when proposing anything new for marauders pls try balance it out against future T3 rebalance. Oh and no rr for class 5 anomaly is a no no... |
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Posted - 2013.09.19 08:32:00 -
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Isinero wrote:if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.
So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)
Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase.
What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return.
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Posted - 2013.09.19 10:31:00 -
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Hanna Cyrus wrote:Now i have read all posts since the thread has started. i read fear that the marauder is getting worse. I read that pirate BS have to be on top. Some one it balanced to pvp, some to pve. That's too much.
Here my Idea:
Balance Marauder to be the best PVE boat, very expensive, very hig ehp, make them slow, give them t2 resists, give them very good damage projektion and the same dps as pirate dps. But leave some weakness on them, like the achilles heel, so it can't be overpowered in PVP.
Balance pirate BS around PVP (as now), take their ehp down, make them much faster and cheaper than a marauder.
The idea of the same dps: You have the choice! Want a slow heavy ehp brick? Fly Marauder! Want a fast platform? Then use a Pirate BS, the trade for their speed is less ehp. So no class is a jack of all trades anymore.
Both classes have their niches, the pirate BS maybe as fast as the ABC and the slow "fortresses" marauder.
What CCP is actually trying to do is make marauders more like pirate BS (good for PvE and PvP) without giving them characteristics that make pirate BS good: dmg, speed, overall universality. This is why they fail. They introduced a couple of weird bonuses that are supposed to compensate for that, but pilots will still chose pirate BS over marauders. At the end of day pirate ships are more coherent at what they do and easier to fly. When flying marauders pilots will need to apply some strange tactics just to make use of the incoherent bonuses that they have. For PvE this may work but for pvp, where every second counts, doing strange stuff does not pay off. |
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Posted - 2013.09.19 10:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Isinero wrote:if there will be balanced ressists it would be much much much better. But I dont think that they will introduce anything like that.
So I am happy with at least T2 ressist which I get instead of 37,5 % repair amount :-) (active tank is same, but I have also bonus to passive tanking which is nice)
Balanced T2 resists (similar to those of Sleipnir shields) would be actually the greatest fix to proposed marauders so far. Their PvE and PvP effectiveness would greatly increase. What I want is to change the Paladin cap bonus to tracking bonus. Why Kronos and Vargur who already have good tracking receive it while paladin gets (not so useless) cap bonus and (totally useless) web bonus. I can live with that web if you insist on it but give me something in return. Minmatar have the worst T2 resists. It would be good for PvE, terrible for PvP. I seriously think everyone should get kin/therm as their T2 resists. EM and exp T2 resists are horrifically underpowered as these damage types are so rare.
Loki resists are stupid, but sleipnir resists are good.
What u write is also very good and would solve many issues. Unifyning T2 resists to Kin/Th would balnce tanks out, balance laser dmg (no need to improve lasers!) and many others. This would however leave the gallente underpowered as the kin/thr is their only dmg type. Sure they have massive dps but at a cost of point blank range. |
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Posted - 2013.09.20 05:58:00 -
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marVLs wrote:Funny that marauders try to be the best in PVE but they aren't the best in most important thing for that: DPS
Only in theory. Ewar immunity is a great thing in few missions. A good omni tank in few others (not to metnion sleepers etc.).
To be honest what I really could use one my Paladin (my thinking before this tread even started) is:
1) +7,5 range bonus (instead of web or capacitor bonus preferably) - DONE
2) slight incerase in tractor beam range to match pulse laser range. - NOT DONE
3) better tank (YES), espacialy passive omni tank (to make use outside lvl 4 missions) - DONE, but for Paladin and Vargur actually it comes with the slight nerf (no resissts increase against racial rats but removel of rep bonus)
4) better sensor strenght for PvP - NOT DONE
5) some kind of ewar immunity against rats - DONE (Great job) but with immobile bastion that kinda has a lot of drawbacks.
As for no amarr pilots: yesterday my gang enountered fleet composed of: 5-6 absolutions, 2 legions, 3 guardians, 1 loki. So there are still all-amarr fleets . |
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Posted - 2013.09.20 10:08:00 -
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Cade Windstalker wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:ok, I know Xequecal is against my proposal, but I'm not sure where you stand from your comments.. Actually, i'm not even sure you're referring to my proposal.
Ok, I can't do the math so someone else will have to do it for me. Factor my existing Golem resists : 0 EM - 50 EX - 47.5 KI - 40 TH with t2 bonus.
Now, take my proposed idea. 33 EM - 33 EX - 36 KI - 35 TH and factor them with t2 resists.
Then perhaps see what it would take to build a strong Omni-tank with both designs.
I don't know the math, nor do I care to try. Personally I'm against your proposal. The differences between shield and armor resists and between the different factions make for more interesting gameplay and I'd just as soon not see them removed. Also your proposed resists are, just from the look of things, not balanced compared to current resists. Never mind that you actually end up with a nerf to certain resists which throws things off rather badly. Some quick calculations though say that your proposed resists are a nerf over any of the current T2 resists in terms of total % increase and therefore total EHP.
True. This is why the base omni resists should be higher. Sleipnir shields resists profile: EM 62,5/ Exp 50 / Kin 40% / Th 50. This what should be implemented on maraduers. Overopowered? Then reduce active tank to 50-75%. This is the crown jewel of the sub-cap ships. Give it something to shine with. Better and more balanced resists make those ships more potent at lvl4, incursions, wh sleepers, pvp. And make everyone happy. |
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Posted - 2013.09.21 20:12:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Lloyd Roses wrote:So you're receiving an extra high, basically identical rep-output (effective rep due to higher baseresists is approx. 40% superior, which is a tiny bit more compared to the old 37.5% bonus), those resists also matter for remote tanking, so something totally new here, and lastly the grid is all but irrelevant. They will be plain better at PvE as they were before, and now - thanks to the massive PG boost - even be able to be fitted for pvp. If you see a marauder nerf here, then the phantasm is the best ship in eve. I'd still like to see the rep-bonus kept on the hull for people who prefer to mission without Bastion due to previously enumerated concerns about damage distribution in missions and the resist bonuses on the Vargur and Paladin, but overall you are correct that the ships are still receiving a buff compared to their current state on TQ.
They are receiving buff for PvP, but Paladin and Vargur get nerf for PvE. Since I already have a ton of different ships for PvP I strongly support the PvE faction (though I do PvE like 1/10 of my EVE time ).
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Posted - 2013.09.25 12:34:00 -
[37] - Quote
CCP could you please make any form of statement? Either:
1) Nice ideas we are listening to your feedback.
or
2) We have decided, further discussion is pointless.
We deserve at least that.
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Posted - 2013.09.26 10:05:00 -
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Darling Hassasin wrote:What I often see in this thread is complaints about losing the web and complains about re-instating them. Then complaints about active tank buff and compalints about active tank nerf.
Interestingly enough, this time I am not ready to dismiss this as player fallacy. I think these schizoid reactions are to be expected because CCP is trying to make all Marauders work in more or less the same way. However when Marauders are cureently very different from each other in the way they tank and gank, when you iterate horizontal across the board changes you will definately create substantial imbalances.
It is normal that palyers expecting CCP to iterate a "solution" for their ships react badly when 50% of them see their current set up nerfed.
Perhaps CCP should ponder on the general powercreep on all hulls in 2013 and proceed to do the same with Marauders. +50% dps in bastion or some such ****, I d expect...
I fully agree. Besides as many have said before me: the problems derives form the fact that marauders in their current state do not have a clearly defined role. This is why we ***** about their bonuses. They are just bad or good depending on what you want this ship to do. |
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Posted - 2013.09.26 22:03:00 -
[39] - Quote
Really confused after the stream... whats the point of tractor beam bonus on marauders if there will be a special deployable structure for that...
Hope that what CCP stuff actually said is that their listening to feedback and the current iteration is not a final one.
Ps. Great job on sisters of eve ships. They rock both by design and concept behind them . |
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Posted - 2013.09.29 21:59:00 -
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Nemo deBlanc wrote:Just commenting to add my voice to the others in this thread condemning the proposed changes; particularly those headed to the Golem.
There's a lot of different issues, but one of the most glaring is the web bonus. It just reeks of laziness since it's in direct competition with target painters and tank for slots and is seeminly only there because it's what you gave the others and you think it may have some sort of PvP value. All the bonuses to damage application seem unnecassary when torps are in their current useless state, but perhaps if you buffed torps like you did cruise I could see the Golem being useful. Until then it's just completely useless and massively outclassed by the Paladin/Vargur.
On the subject of PvP viability, what is your vision for these ships? In the current iteration they're far too squishy for fleet warfare, too expensive/immobile for low sec gang work (post insurance these are on the level of a capital loss if not worse), bad for WH work due to their large mass/sig radius and dread blapping, and just all around a worse PvP choice than a pirate battleship. I'm trying really hard to envision a scenario where I'd use one of these for PvP and I honestly can't think of a single one.
Somebody enlighten me please.
Exactly. It's not that their bad, it's just for anything they can do, some other ship can do better (and cheaper). From my PvE perspective only the ewar immunity is unique. And I just can see a scenario where I would use this ship in PvP.
As for hulls:
1) Kronos - probably only one ok (but a PvE blaster boat...) - it will be the only one viable in PvP. 2) Golem - TP/web bonus is just silly... 3) Paladin - needs resist altered and a 3rd useful bonus (instead web or capacitor - tracking is logical choice comparing to vargur and kronos). 4) Vargur - needs its resisted altered, web is kinda meh since its a shield ship.
Really do all those ships need web? Except Kronos maybe (outside bastion)? |
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Posted - 2013.10.01 15:04:00 -
[41] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Hey people, We've been away from this thread for a while to let things cool down a bit. With Rubicon coming to Singularity soon, we've decided to revert Marauders to the original design for now, as we want to see how they actually fare in practice within player hands before committing to the version 2 change. We will let you know if and when we move to version 2 again. WeGÇÖll most likely open a new thread when they appear on Singularity as this one has become quite convoluted. That means:
- Shield, armor and hull resists in Bastion Mode only
- Keep the 37.5% tank bonus on the Marauders, no web bonus
We are also aware this won't please everyone here - regarding their comparison with Pirate Battleships, especially the Machariel, please remember we have stated many times Pirate hulls were due for a rebalance, with Angel Cartel being on the front line for tuning changes. Thanks for your time.
And thank you Sir. This may not be perfect, but the second take on marauders was just horrible. Both proposals sucked for PvP, both were bad in fleets, etc. But the first one is an ultimate solo ratting ship. If I have to chose between a ship that can do only one thing well, and a ship that can't do anything well, I obviously chose the first one.
Still I hope you develope a 3rd proposal, and if not - at lest do something with the tractor bonus - in light of Rubicon it has no sence. |
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Posted - 2013.10.01 17:00:00 -
[42] - Quote
Guys stop crying about their pvp application. Version mk 1 or version mk 2 you would not use them for pvp anyway. I took a liberty of chcking records of some of you and either you post with your alts or you really suck at pvp. This ship costs too much and is too immobile (even without bastion) to risk it in pvp. And this comes from a guy that regularly flies full fation-fitted ships for pvp. The only place where mk 2 coud find use is a wormhol pvp because there are no blobs there. BUT they get hard countered by Dreads which will insta-pop your 2bil marauders. Guys in wh1-3 could use them, but they don't earn enough to risk marauders in pvp... |
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Posted - 2013.10.02 08:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mole Guy wrote:i did some looking into the resistance numbers.
the original marauder t2 resistances were assigned when ccp didnt want to go overboard with t2 resistances (back in 07).
well, i added up the resistance on the paladin and averaged them. i came up with 56.875% as an average.
to me, after seeing how ships performed in space against a variety of targets, one niche thing we could do would be to just give them balanced resistance. like you did on the gnosis.
base 56.9% is pretty high, why dont we just give them a balanced 50% across the board? this would coincide with DCII AND bastion mode. marauders would be setup to fight all enemies of the empire, not just minmatar, but they could hit blood raiders or whatever.
this would make incursion runners happy, worm hole guys happy and pretty much everyone when your ship can omni tank really well and there are no needs for specific flavored rigs. 2 EANP II's and we have a great balanced tank. DC II, bastion and it would be 75 or so across the board.
just a thought.
Many people bofoere you (including me ) have said that, but CCP ignored that...
What they shoud do is keep the maruders as for mk1 version AND introduce another ship (hull) that would use marauder skill and would be good at PvP, Incursions etc. |
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Posted - 2013.10.07 17:18:00 -
[44] - Quote
WTF? I'm on Sisi now... Golem has a new model, but Paladin looks exactly the same... |
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Posted - 2013.10.07 17:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:WTF? I'm on Sisi now... Golem has a new model, but Paladin looks exactly the same... I think the Paladins new transformer bits haven't been added yet.
I was under the impression that it is getting a completely new model... Devs bragged about it a lot... |
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Posted - 2013.10.07 21:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Edora Madullier wrote:Lair Osen wrote:To test Bastion on SiSi, goto Moveme channel and type bastion to get skills for all marauders and bastion.
On the Bastion Module. please ensure the range bonuses are non-stacking, since they're half the reason to use the modules and they don't seem to be ATM. Thanks! My Tachyon Paladin has 69km range with Multifrequency. I think the range bonuses of the Bastion Mode do indeed stack with my two TC II. The concept is not as awesome as I thought it would be, since you cannot MJD on the Acceleration Gate, warp through it and then instantly MJD again to take distance. But the fact that I cannot be TD'ed, damped, jammed is pretty awesome, and the LAR II giving me 25% armor every cycle is pretty amazing too. I'm pretty satisfied atm. Gonna test Kronos and Vargur too, maybe even Golem, even if my Torpedoes skill is not at V. Though I haven't used it yet, i'm not sure I like MJD bonus as we're still to slow to close the leftover distance.
Can't see the application for MJD. Have run a few missions and MWD or AB seem to be much better. With Paladin range bonus for most missions you don't need bastion at all. It will be handy in just few harder missions.
Speed nerf hurts. A lot.
I can now fit 4 dmg mods for my Paladin (about 850 dps with scorch without drones), 2 IN EANM for 81/75/75/77 omni tank with bastion. Thats more than enough for any mission.
Fitting a web is actually a good idea now, since u don't need cap rechargers. It will help to deal with close orbiting cruisers and u can still fit propulsion and 1 TC.
Summary:
Bastion is meh. Immobility cancels out any bonuses it gives. Only ewar immunity is great.
MJD is totally useless (IMHO).
Tractor bonus does not correspond with range of guns and is next to useless now.
With bastion and drone nerf the ship could actually use a huge bonus to drones (like 10% dmg, hp, tracking) since it can only deploy lights. It would massively help dealing with elite frigs.
Speed nerf was done to force us into MJD. Sorry CCP I still wont use this module.
60 seconds cooldown on bastion is tragic. In most cases u sit 30 sec on grid while everything is dead and than u have to align. Before u could align while the last rat was dying.
Keep you marauder in hangar for 4-5 hardest missions. For the rest use a tengu or something. |
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Posted - 2013.10.08 12:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ok a short list of what this ship could do well (good line) and why it won't (bad line).
1. Level 4 missions:
Good: it has superb range, massive tank that lets you go semi afk, allows fewer tank modules so more dps/application modules. e-war immunity (win!).
Bad: it's immobile - you lose time to get to another pocket, time to get out of bastion, time to align when you come out of bastion, you will shoot rats at 100 km (so groups of rats can be in some cases 200 km apart) where they spawn so it will be hard salvage even with noctis let alone the marauder itself... while good for lazy and cautious pilots it's ISK/hr rate will be bad. Using MJD for 2-step Pythagoras jump may work but it will not increase speed (2min to perform this maneuver x number of gates in mission).
2. Solo PvP
Good: massive tank, e-war immunity, spare utility highs (neuts).
Bad: its immobile. unless u instapop a target it will sooner or later leave your tackle range and simply run off. Also solo PvP with a dead-slow ship that has no cov-ops cloak or bubble immunity or be just cheap is just insanity IMHO. It will just die to any passing gang or gate camp. I don't think adding web bonus back would solve the problem.
3. Fleet PvP
Good: like a mini dread being immobile could be worth it. Actually it's better than dread because it not only gets active tank bonus but also passive resist bonuses. Just as large fleet dreads ignore their rep bonus in favor of buffer tank so could a marauder.
Bad: the whole point of committing dreads to siege even when ignoring their active rep bonus is the fact that it gets a massive dps boost in siege. Without such bonus committing marauder to a stationary position is pointless. And I canGÇÖt be remotely repped...
4. WH sleepers
Good: high omni resists, high range, good dmg application. As with fleet pvp rep bonus could be ignored in favor of buffer tank.
Bad: if it's a buffer tank it needs carriers to rep it. They can't. Outside bastion it loses range and resists advantage. Not good in bastion, not good outside bastion.
5. Incursions
No idea about that pls make a comment.
Summary:
1. CCP failed at marauders before they started. They failed to answer what this ship is supposed to do. It's not specialized, it's not universal (bastion). It potentially can do a lot of things but other ships can do them better.
2. Don't think it will be that good even for lvl 4 missions...
3. Version with t2 resists also sucks if CCP thinks of going back t to it.
4. Main problem is the bastion which sucks. It's immobility coupled with lack of useful bonuses (except e-war immunity) make this ship really bad in this mode. And since CCP nerfed the hull to justify bastion, this ship fails also outside bastion.
5. Marauder can do one thing very well: it has sick active tank. Unfortunately this has a rather limited use. It's either to much (lvl 4) or to little (WH 5-6, fleets).
Solution:
1. Actually turning those ships into giant HAC would solve most of the above problems (but itGÇÖs unlikely).
2. Bastion could give only range and ewar immunity, 30% resists should be part of the hull (NOT t2 resists). Bastion should disallow remote repping but NOT movement.
3. CCP take your MJD and try to use it. If you can find a good application for it pls let us know. For now give us MWD or AB bonus.
4. Unnerf the hull.
5. Don't improve sensors. Leave e-war immunity on bastion. If i get jammed I either sit nad cry or I commit to bastion.
6. Don't improve dornes - their nerf is fine.
7. If u don't want to give bastion a dps bonus don't make hull useless withut it. Make it an emergency device that will allow to clear e-war rats (in PvP) or deal with heavy e-war but not heavy dps fleets.
8. Pls reveal to us the great secret of what this t2 specialized ship is specialized at.
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
44
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Posted - 2013.10.08 12:57:00 -
[48] - Quote
gascanu wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:
3. Fleet PvP
Good: like a mini dread being immobile could be worth it. Actually it's better than dread because it not only gets active tank bonus but also passive resist bonuses. Just as large fleet dreads ignore their rep bonus in favor of buffer tank so could a marauder.
Bad: the whole point of committing dreads to siege even when ignoring their active rep bonus is the fact that it gets a massive dps boost in siege. Without such bonus committing marauder to a stationary position is pointless. And I canGÇÖt be remotely repped...
lol you got it all wrong here: they are not mini dreads, why the hell ppl keep saying that? they will be alphaed on the the grid no matter of your local tank...
How to you want to alpha them if they will be buffer fit? 2 Plates, 2 EANM, 3 dmg mods, 2 trimarks. Pls tell me how u alpha that buffer. I said IF you IGNORE lokal tank...
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
44
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Posted - 2013.10.08 13:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:
My Golem boosts for 26% of my shield with an X-L pith X shield booster while bastioned.
That's insane... I can also hold several cap boosters...
Basically, if you can completely one shot by Golem, the I wouldn't have had a chance anyway.
However, even if you have High aplha, I can refill my shields in 4 cycles..
You don't do much PvP do you? Even if u could rep 50% of your shields, 10-15 Tornados (sorry don't want to count exact figure) would one-shot you. You would not be able to run a single rep cycle. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
44
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Posted - 2013.10.08 13:24:00 -
[50] - Quote
David Kir wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:gascanu wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:
3. Fleet PvP
Good: like a mini dread being immobile could be worth it. Actually it's better than dread because it not only gets active tank bonus but also passive resist bonuses. Just as large fleet dreads ignore their rep bonus in favor of buffer tank so could a marauder.
Bad: the whole point of committing dreads to siege even when ignoring their active rep bonus is the fact that it gets a massive dps boost in siege. Without such bonus committing marauder to a stationary position is pointless. And I canGÇÖt be remotely repped...
lol you got it all wrong here: they are not mini dreads, why the hell ppl keep saying that? they will be alphaed on the the grid no matter of your local tank... How to you want to alpha them if they will be buffer fit? 2 Plates, 2 EANM, 3 dmg mods, 2 trimarks. Pls tell me how u alpha that buffer. I said IF you IGNORE lokal tank... The same way other ships are cleared off, even if buffer fit. A fleet that can alpha a small-sigged, relatively mobile Damnation will have no trouble instapopping a giant, stationary marauder.
True, but whats your point? In theory a buffer dread can get alphad, but people still fly them. All I'm saying is that a buffer fit Marader could be a valid fit if it got some bonuses justifying it's immobility. It's a good comparison because even if you can alpha a dread, a fleet of them will still have a point in using siege. Marauder using bastion is worthless in fleet situations. |
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Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
50
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Posted - 2013.10.10 20:07:00 -
[51] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:TehCloud wrote:How are you supposed to do pvp when you have no web bonus and are forced to use bastion for everything?
Everything will just burn out of your range and warp away,
The Kronos is a Gallente Boat. So would you please give it a125mbit dronebandwith? You're forced to use blasters anyway since rails are worse than blasters with null. You fly them with other ships like the new EA-frigs that get an 80km web.
Or a Loki or Scimitar... going solo in Marauder is like going solo in Dread... |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
57
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Posted - 2013.10.12 15:57:00 -
[52] - Quote
Ok so marauders are now more or less better at lvl 4 missions. Their PvP application is unknown but crap probably. They now need to be made usable in wh and incursions to make them the ultimate PvE ship. We know that Devs won't make any drastic changes so how about:
1) Unnerf the hull (speed, agility and base hp)
2) Move bastion resist bonus onto hull.
3) Add low (kronos/paladin) / mid (vargur/golem) slot for more tank/gank.
4) Make the hull repair bonus also affect rr bonus (this may become to OP with resists on hull...)
Thats it. Points 3 and 4 are not even that needed but would be nice. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
57
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Posted - 2013.10.12 16:20:00 -
[53] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Ok so marauders are now more or less better at lvl 4 missions. Their PvP application is unknown but crap probably. They now need to be made usable in wh and incursions to make them the ultimate PvE ship. We know that Devs won't make any drastic changes so how about:
1) Unnerf the hull (speed, agility and base hp)
2) Move bastion resist bonus onto hull.
3) Add low (kronos/paladin) / mid (vargur/golem) slot for more tank/gank.
4) Make the hull repair bonus also affect rr bonus (this may become to OP with resists on hull...)
Thats it. Points 3 and 4 are not even that needed but would be nice. 2. no. most i would agree to is giving the ships the old "field command ship" tech II resistance and then the bastion mod getting standard DCU II resists for armor and shield but remains the 30% for hull
Hmm, I don't quite understand you. You would like T2 resist more? Problem is that they suck for Paladin and Vargur in Level 4 missions. And since most pilots flying marauders use them for lvl 4 than would **** them off (and rightly so). Having a high omni resists should be the signature mark for marauders. But not linked to bastion because it sucks on incursions and wh. From my testing on Sisi u wont even need a bastion for most lvl 4 missions (thats for Paladin who does not need the extra range - don't know about others...) |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
57
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Posted - 2013.10.12 17:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Xequecal wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:Ok so marauders are now more or less better at lvl 4 missions. Their PvP application is unknown but crap probably. They now need to be made usable in wh and incursions to make them the ultimate PvE ship. We know that Devs won't make any drastic changes so how about: Uhm, they're incredible in WHs, since WH mechanics make it hard to blob them and break the tank.
As a class 5 wh citizen I would disagree.
1) PvE: since u can't get rr u are dead in 10 sec against capital spawn sleepers.
2) PvP: a gang of 20+ T3 and Commands will eat your tank instantly. Hell, they may even alpha you. Also a lone dread will just obliterate any number of marauders |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
58
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Posted - 2013.10.12 17:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote: 2) PvP: a gang of 20+ T3 and Commands will eat your tank instantly. Hell, they may even alpha you. Also a lone dread will just obliterate any number of marauders
What makes you think you should have an easy time taking on 20+ T3 ships or a dread (which wont get dropped on you outside of sisi) solo?
Coz my T3 or command will get rr and marauder wont...? A dread wont be dropped on me? Man you clearly have no idea about wh warfare... |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
58
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Posted - 2013.10.12 19:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Cassius Invictus wrote:
Coz my T3 or command will get rr and marauder wont...? A dread wont be dropped on me? Man you clearly have no idea about wh warfare...
They arnt a big fleet ship and the vast bulk of space will not see a dread deployed on a 1 bil BS.
Ok I agree. You wont deploy a dread to kill a lone marauder. But you also wont solo pvp in a maruder in a WH. And when a fleet is present a capital escalation is like 50% possible. Then those marauders become a primary for a dread.
Besides I believe that their PvP use in unlikely anyway. When I said about WH I meant PvE and for high-end sleepers they will be useless without high resists outside bastion. |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
59
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Posted - 2013.10.24 08:53:00 -
[57] - Quote
Great "new" model of Paladin... the bottom side with bastion ding-dongs looks... less "realistic" and flat than on original Apoc. Also what are they doing to colors? Hope they invert golden with red... then the new absolution with harbi hull would not look like an armoured tampon... |
Cassius Invictus
Thou shalt not kill
74
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Posted - 2013.12.20 13:00:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ok i did DC in my Paladin, dut to the overall connection failur and was able to reconnect after 12 hours (after downtime). I was in bastion, cap stable, with scrambling frigates destroyed. I did survive, and my marauder didn't stay on grid. Still i have no idea what happened and if i'm safe after dc with bastion on. Wrote a support ticket to CCP but they remain silent. |
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